Mill Street - The Debate
There are many different strands to the debate about the
development of Mill Street car park in Aberystwyth. The plans by Ceredigion
Council entail building a multi-storey car park alongside Tesco and Marks &
Spencer shops. The scheme entails the demolition of Park Avenue Day Centre - to
be replaced by a much smaller Day Centre in the Town Hall - plus the Drill Hall
and the 13 houses in Glyndwr Road. Below are all arguments I’ve heard from
different people, which just happen to fit into ten on either side.
1/ There was no
consultation with either the general public or Day Centre users before the
decision on Mill Street was made. The Council has no right to make a far
reaching decision like this without public consultation.
2/ Tesco rips off
farmers and is a Trojan horse that is destroying towns around the country. There
are 450 local campaigns against Tesco listed on the Tescopoly website,
including 37 in Wales. They should be opposed everywhere.
3/ Aberystwyth doesn’t
need any more supermarkets - we’ve got too many already (Co-op, Morrison’s, CK’s,
Lidl, Iceland, Spar)
4/ More chain stores will
turn Aber into a clone town, the same as everywhere else, and take business
from our small traders that give the town its character.
5/ A multi-storey car
park will look ugly and will bring more cars to the town when we should be trying
to cut traffic and encouraging public transport instead.
6/ The new Day Centre
in the Town Hall is much smaller and less inviting than the current one. If
they have to pull the old one down they should replace like for like, which they
are clearly not. No to moving until they do.
7/ Glyndwr Road and
the Drill Hall should not be included in the scheme. They are part of
Aberystwyth’s heritage and character which itself has an unacknowledged economic
value that helps to attract visitors.
8/ A potential Compulsory
Purchase Order on someone’s home (in Glyndwr Road) that they don’t agree to
leave is morally wrong. That principle should not be broken. If sticking to it
results in the scheme collapsing then that is the Council’s own fault.
9/ Aberystwyth isn’t
central to Ceredigion and it’s unfair that the Council concentrates so much development
there. More money should be spent in the south of the county [point made by
people in the South of the County].
10/ We don’t want Aberystwyth
to become bigger. We like it the size it is.
Yes to the
development
1/ Rightly or wrongly,
Ceredigion Council is now legally committed to the Mill Street development
under European Procurement Regulations. Attempting to get out of it, or alter
it, would lead to the Council being sued at huge cost which the taxpayer would
have to bear.
2/ Those who want
Aberystwyth to stay the same are deluding themselves. Nothing stays the same.
The town will either grow or shrink. We have to choose which we want.
3/ Aberystwyth cannot
keep saying no to development. If it keeps saying no it will get nothing and the
town will go into decline. In practical terms, that means fewer jobs and opportunities in the future and less all-round vibrancy.
4/ Aberystwyth Chamber of Commerce,
which represents small shops in the town, supports the development because it’s
close enough to the town centre to draw more people in and benefit everyone. The
anti-supermarket protestors say they care about the small traders. Why don’t
they listen to them?
5/ Those people who
oppose supermarkets are being elitist. Many people don’t have the luxury of
being able to shop in more expensive small shops. They have to buy what they
can afford.
6/ Tesco is a higher
standard of supermarket than currently exists in Aberystwyth whilst Marks &
Spencer will take us into the next league in terms of attracting shoppers. Both
will take the town in the right direction.
7/ The right number
of supermarkets for a town is decided by market forces, not by imposing some
sort of ‘supermarket quota’. When there are too many, the least attractive will
go out of business.
8/ Working mothers
don’t have the time to wander from shop to shop. They need to get their shopping
in one hit and that means a supermarket [point made by some working mothers].
9/ Improving the
shopping experience in Aberystwyth could actually save carbon because fewer
people from the area will drive to Carmarthen or Shrewsbury for their shopping.
10/ In the summer Aberystwyth’s
current car parks regularly become completely full and the town’s streets are
crammed with cars, meaning the town is effectively closed to further visitors.
We need a multi-storey to cater for this welcome demand.
.jpg)
these pro arguments are terrible, or outright false and strawman based.
ReplyDeleteDisagree with Andrew Tindall. I thought the pro arguments were were balanced and sensible.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, 10 out of 10 to Alun for a most informative blog.
Alun - I'd like to know what Plaid and other Ceredigion councillors are going to do about a real issue facing Aberystwyth which is that some hotel owners, landlords, Tai Cantref (and the County Council) with no word from Plaid, are turning the county into a dumping ground for people unwanted in the big English cities.
ReplyDeleteI don't remember when I last heard a Welsh accent from a Tai Cantref occupier. The owner of a large well-known hotel on the Promenade at Aberystwyth adverstises her rooms for former criminals and prison services. But nothing is said by the Plaid Left Wing because it's not politically correct.
Our town, your town, and Wales is being given great problems which effects our hospitals (you rarely find a Welsh accent at Bronglais A&E or magistrates court), schools and other services.
I'm in agreement with Jac O' the North blog. What's Plaid's view?
http://jacothenorth.blogspot.com/2012/01/houses-of-multiple-occupation.html
One reason why so much is spent on helath issues in Wales is because we're actively advertising people with health and social issues to come here to live! It's a big cartel where the 'Third Sector' who look after people with problems want more of these people here so that they can continue to receive their grants; the landlords and some female hotel owners we could name in Aberystwyth want them for the high rent they pay (or rather idiots like me pay) and the policians want them here because they're used to justify keeping hospitals and other services here.
Aber Voter
Good to put both sides. People interested in Mill Street plans can go to a Public Meeting, non-party political, Thur 26th Jan, 7pm, Morlan Centre Aberystwyth.
ReplyDeleteOne 'against' you may have forgotten (or left out to keep it a round 10) is that demolishing a street of houses seems a little rash when Aber is known to have housing issues.
Anonymous 1
ReplyDeleteYou're way off topic of course, but here's Plaid's view on the housing situation in Ceredigion:
"Whilst it is right that the most seriously disadvantaged should receive priority in social housing allocations, current Council policy fails to ensure that there is sufficient housing for local people and has conducted no needs analysis. The current local housing waiting list for the county is 1,246. We want to get to grips with this with a firm plan to provide decent housing for all local people, defined as someone who has lived in the area for five years.
"There has been an average of 748 empty homes in Ceredigion over the last four years, not including second homes. We will instigate a policy of buying empty properties to let as social housing.
"A Plaid-run Council would set up a First-Time Buyers Scheme to help young people access the deposit to release a mortgage.
"We would also implement a Local Lettings Policy for new social housing in rural areas for people who have lived in the area for five years."
Anonymous 2
"...demolishing a street of houses seems a little rash when Aber is known to have housing issues." - Fair point.
Very fair and balanced item.
ReplyDeleteOne other point that I did not spot in the list concerns "green" issues. How much CO2 is already "tied up" in the Day Centre, Drill Hall and Glyndwr Road? All this will be lost if these are demolished.
Why not use empty premises first - like MFI and Focus before you build more? While they remain empty they are deteriorating. Let's hope B&Q take over the old Focus warehouse.
B & Q are taking the old Focus, they are already advertising for staff.
DeleteJust saw a tweet from Simon Thomas that's sort of related, "Minister confirms to me that he will launch national empty property prog for landlords giving interest-free loans to get homes back into use".
ReplyDelete9/ Improving the shopping experience in Aberystwyth could actually save carbon because fewer people from the area will drive to Carmarthen or Shrewsbury for their shopping
Can't see how this is right, surely with all the building and daily deliveries to all these places and energy it would take to run them, carbon would be higher not lower. Anyway I'm no expert.
In response to Anonymous 1
ReplyDelete"A Plaid-run Council would set up a First-Time Buyers Scheme to help young people access the deposit to release a mortgage.
The Lib Dems on Ceredigion County Council have already started the ball rolling on this matter. A few months ago two Lib Dem councillors placed a motion before council asking for a study to be undertaken on the introduction of a Local Authority Mortgage Scheme. Such a scheme would assist local people in getting their first steps onto the property ladder. The motion was carried, with cross party support, with the result that the residents of Ceredigion can look forward to the results of that study and the introduction of a LAMS in Ceredigion.
"We would also implement a Local Lettings Policy for new social housing in rural areas for people who have lived in the area for five years."
Ceredigion people would welcome a Local Letting Policy but it is both simplistic and naïve to state that one would implement a policy when the implementation of such a policy is dependant on the cooperation and support of those institutions responsible for social housing, namely local housing associations. Plaid have already been wrong footed on this matter, such was their haste to make political capital, that they brought a premature motion before council on the matter despite being advised that it would be illegal at the time to implement what they proposed. As for Local Letting Policy in rural areas, does Plaid not believe that residents living in the towns also deserve to be included in a Local Letting Policy?
Far from making political capital out of a very real need in our communities, Plaid Cymru acted on the advice of the Rural Housing Enabler to draft the original policy put forward. This was following the adoption of a similar policy by the Board of Tai Ceredigion, one of the Registered Social Landlords operating in the county, and following the use of a similar policy by Mid Wales Housing when allocating new houses in Ponterwyd. It also complemented the Section 106 provision attached to the planning consent given to Tai Cantref for a new development in Tregaron.
ReplyDeletePlaid felt that, due to a reticence on the part of the present administration to move on developing housing policies needed in Ceredigion, they group should propose a policy in order to move the matter forward.
The Council has now received legal advice that confirms Plaid Cymru's original belief and allows us to move forward with a draft rural local lettings policy. It will first proceed to a workshop and then to full Council for ratification.
Unfortunately, as Plaid was aware, this policy would not be legally acceptable in urban areas as it is an exceptions policy allowed under the present legislation.
The full lettings policy needs a radical review in order to ensure that local people, both urban and rural, are given fair access to local social housing. However it would seem that new Welsh legislation is needed in order for this to happen.
sorry I have to address some of the points in the opposition section because they are simply ridiculous
ReplyDeletePoint 3. Apart from Morrison's only in Aberystwyth would people consider the Co-op,CK’s, Lidl, Iceland and Spar Supermarkets/ Maybe in 1965 but now now!!!!)
Point 4. Small shops giving character to the town? What aboout Mona Lisa? Is that character??? What about the small business's occupying Burton Chambers with the dreadful boarded upstairs. Character????
Point 7. Are you seriously suggesting that the houses in Glyndwr road and the drill hall contribute to tourism??? Complete and utter nonsense.
Point 9. People south of the county think there is too much development here??????? What development?????? Don't Cardigan already have Tesco and B&Q?????? Ceredigion is the poor cousin of Carmarthen and pembrokeshire North and South ANY development should be welcomed.
Point 10> We don't want Aberystwyth to become bigger???? Why on earth not??????????? The lack of vision and ambition is worrying.
Dear Anonymous 27 Jan
ReplyDeleteBigger isn't necessarily better. What advantages are there to growth? Look at the Republic of Ireland. For 10 years they had the Celtic Tiger economy. Failed to control lending, failed to control housing. Had a building boom. Built houses here,there and everywhere. Now their economy is bust. House prices have dropped 70% in the last 4 years. Empty houses everywhere. Many people in negative equity. What vision and ambition do you have for Aberystwyth?
We are on the coast with poor road and rail communications to those parts of Wales with all the development that you seem to crave - the South, the North and along the border with England. Aberystwyth is only as big as it is because of the University. What do you want - a town big enough to support bowling alleys, ice rinks, night clubs and multiplex cinemas? Hundreds of shops all selling the same foreign goods? Not for me, thank you.
Looks like we are getting B&Q to replace Focus. This I applaud.
I don't think you should use Ireland as a comparison, expecially as they were building on borrowed money in euros which they couldn't afford to pay back! Growth is not negative. What would you prefer? That the town becomes a retirement town for the over 70s and all the young people move elsewhere because there is no growth/no jobs/no entertainment? Get real!!!!
DeleteAnonymousJan 27, 2012 03:33 PM
ReplyDeleteThanks for the name check. Would point out though that Mona Liza is spelt with a Z and has been for the last 22 years. You know what they say any publicity is good publicity as long as they spell your name correctly.
C Davies
ok well how about spelling it T A C K Y!!
DeleteI tried to respond to the above statements, but my reply is far to long winded, if anyone would like to read what I have to say, you can check out the unabridged version here http://iratus-vox.blogspot.com/2012/01/aberystwyth.html
ReplyDeleteI just want to pick at this particular point in the pro section 7/ The right number of supermarkets for a town is decided by market forces, not by imposing some sort of ‘supermarket quota’. When there are too many, the least attractive will go out of business.
So if we do end up having 3 Spars in town, CK Foods, Co-Op, Morrisions, Lidil, Iceland, Sainsburrys, M&S, Tescos I supose the least attractive would be gone then, bye bye CK Foods, the smallest (finincial least secure) shop is dust, for what progress? I think progress should be made in different ways, although massive re-development is needed, perhaps something more dynamic to attract tourists rather then passing trade. I think Aberystwyth would be better off building an IMAX cinema or something like that to have something that isn't available for hundreds of miles. But I know something like that will never happen, not in Aberystwyth thats for sure. I have read so much relating to the towns history that I have an insight into the towns social/econimic evolotion over the past 70 years. Back when Aberystwyth was governed as the Borough of Aberystwyth, which had a hell of a lot more power and could get more done the the council of today. Their was hopes and ambition for the town, but noting really came to fruitition, I have transcribed a document detailing the future development of Aberystwyth dated Jan 4th 1947, written by the Borough Accountant Mr.F.Sharpe, in short it details the concept of extending the prom as far as Tanybwlch Beach and have hotels by Pen Dinas, along with an Amusement park. (could you imagine that, it would have been awesome, Aberystwyth would have been the Welsh Blackpool) Unfortunatly these plans never took off, for reasons which are still unclear to me.
Myth's are:
ReplyDelete- Tesco's is cheap - on price checking Tesco's for basic goods Lidl's was cheaper for every item I checked.
- that a development at mill street will draw people into the town centre - people will have 3 hours to park and the store proposed will have toilets, a cafe, household and electrical goods as well as food. It may also provide on-line delivery. Will those using the car park have time to go into or want to go into aber town centre - I very much doubt it.
- the development will help regenerate the centre of aber - more people may come to shop in the two stores concerned - but the development is more likely to take trade away from the town centre and not into it.